Meddling with meshes

[Animalover44]

This opens up a whole new level to coding! Now I really need to get 3ds Max. LOL

[sheltiefan]

That is really cool!:cool: This could allow for so many animals to be created since the existing frames don't always make the best models for new species. Let's just hope that the gap in it's head can be fixed *crosses fingers*.

[X'Ray]

that is really well done! i think i may download this program and muck around a bit too knowing that it will work :laughing: keep up the good work!

[yinyangwolf]

Does anyone know the simplest way to edit the meshes of animals. I'm gonna try and make a chinese dragon out of a komodo. I may need some help. I've only tried to make an animal once(raccoon). It failed horribly. The animal just showed up as a white box on the animals list and it had no zoopedia entry.

[penguinbomber14]

Now I realize this is a stupid question, but don't you have to keep the same number of letters as zebra in the .nif? Doesn't making the name longer make the .nif not work?

Not if you have xvi32, it allows you to change the existing dds names to any number of characters you want. If you don't have that just change the names of the dds files, not the whole animal.

And yinyang wolf, I don't think bfm of the k dragon will work well for that. Just so everyone knows, littlemog and simba are very good at what they are doing. i can tell you from experience that editing meshes is a thousand times harder than you can imagine. I can almost gaurantee you will not be able to do it without classes. I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but it is NOT easy at all.

[Nettie]

I am 22 and taking 3d max classes as we speak.  so far i can make basic shapes and combinations, and that was HARD ENOUGH!  People who are continplating downloading this program (unless you are paying for it, it is illegial might i remind you) will be totally and utterly confused unless they've had extensive training with this program.  even getting a book with tutorials is hard to follow unless you have someone to show you how to fix things.  As many who have played with this program will agree, fixing something that goes wrong is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT!!!  

I'm really good at learning new programs and have used 3d-ish animating software before and I'm in college, and i'm taking classes specifically for this program...what littlemog is doing is AMAZING WORK.

I would not reccomend just "toying" or "messing" around with this program...  that is unless you're ready to jump in a long term commitment in learning this program, (including classes, books, and PURCHASING the program, kudos to those who do and do it right) or if you enjoy intense migrains and complete frustration.  :wink:

[germanwolf]

: : Thanks for the warning, nettie.  I love your avatar! it's cute!

I might download this program later..... after ai have figured out how to make some varients...

[Littlemog]

For animating: you definitely want classes. For modelling, if you're willing to put the time and effort in to learn it's possible to 'self teach' (I did with modelling Polygons in Maya), but I reached a block at rigging (and texturing, but I'm useless at that anyway) the things (I was planning on taking classes all along, and I think the fact I tried modelling and had proof got me through the interview to get into uni, since I had no animating experience with stop motion and the like. I'm now in the third week of the first year :original: )

Bearing in mind that the editing in ZT2 isn't doing too much complex stuff (you're only moving vertices, not creating new ones, subdividing and such) and you're not messing with the animation.

And actually, you're not even using Max that much. It's all in NifSkope, moving the vertices around by numbers (a 3D background helps, as you'll be familiar with the whole X-Y-Z space, the learning curve is steep but it is possible) You don't even NEED Max (and you can't export nifs anyway), it's just helpful if you're looking for the number of a specific vertex. You don't even need Blender, if you're willing to do a bit of trial and error.

It IS frustrating, and you do have to have the patience for it - it's often several hours if not days to make something when you're handling the vertices directly, nevermind by number instead. You've got 400-700 vertices each animal (and then baby) and you're editing them all manually (IE, by number, not by dragging in xyz space like the interface in most 3D programs)

I will emphasise: You do not NEED Max. Considering most here aren't loaded, and aren't quite young, for many it's not a (legal) option. NifSkope is free and you DO need it, even if you use Max/Blender, as you can't go directly from Blender to ingame (Blender destroys a lot of the file in the process, so you need to manually copy across in NifSkope anyway)

[Gloria]

So, Littlemog, do you think you could elaborate a little on the process of "copying across"? I'm assuming you mean that you have to find the vertice you moved in Blender/Max and then change it in Nifskope manually, is that correct?

I'm also curious as to how, as referenced in the tutorial you wrote, you "removed" the other meshes and put them back in later... I haven't figured out how to do that yet... but then I haven't been working on the issue for very long yet, either.

Thank you for your tips and for helping pioneer this area of ZT2 editing.

[Littlemog]

Yes, that is correct. And it does take ages and a lot of patience - it's not the usual interface-drag modelling most 3D programs use.

(Sorry, I was meant to be getting net at home, but that's been thrown because my motherboard melted for no apparent reason, so I need to wait for a new one to be delivered and put it back together.)

Usually, if you export with Blender and Copy-Paste the entirety of NITriShapeData it won't let you because Blender exports a 4.something Nif, and ZT2 uses 10.something. But I think Simba's (don't pm/bug them) figured out how to change the versions in Blender - in which case, it would save... insane amounts of time. It might only work if you've got the same number of vertices in each nif but I'm not sure (since Blender sometimes merges vertices located in the same space and you end up with less)

To get rid of the other, lo-res models, you find (animal)LOD1:0 and 2:0 (or similar), right click, and delete. After that, you save as something different all the time (so you've got the originals still) then when you're done, open the new model in NifSkope, rightclick the NITriShapeData you've been editing, click copy, then use the menu to open the original, find the NITriShapeData in there, right click, and Paste Over. (Ie, you don't remove them and put them back in, you isolate the one you're using then paste it back into the originals.)

The game won't load .nifs without the lower res models (it switches to them when you zoom out so there's less to process when you're out and got a lot on the screen), but the only reason I delete them is to see better - if you can transfer from the blendered one directly rather than manually, that won't be neccessary.

[ThePantherKing]

I made a weird animal heres the link to it

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Microsoft Games\Zoo Tycoon 2\Devins Files\HTML Photo Album\album1\pic5.jpg