Can Animal ID Codes Be Reserved?

[Zirconia Wolf]

I know that Buildings (and things needing Lang/dll files) need to use a pre-reserved "String ID" code to prevent conflicts between user created items, but how does this work for APE created Animals or Objects?

I understand that APE assigns a number to Animals/Objects to prevent them from overwritting any Offical things, but is there a way to be sure (or at least lessen the chance) that the Animals that I am preparing to make will also not overwrite (or otherwise conflict with) the different User Made critters out there?

I suppose it's to much to hope for an answer as simple as "Sure, you can and our own unique letters to a UCA file with no problem", eh?

-ZW

[Yellowrose]

Playing around with the [LOWER]aPE GENERATED NUMBERS IS NOT RECOMMENDED. aPE HAS A REAL FUNNY WAY OF RARELY DUPLICATING A NUMBER.[/LOWER] To my knowledge there is no list of ape numbers that have been generated for user created content, although it may be an idea to do some day so numbers can be checked just to be sure no conflicts occur should duplicate numbers arise.

About the only thing that can be done is make your animal or object and do everything necessary for release and if there is a conflict after release it can be looked into and a note made of any conflicts.

[Zirconia Wolf]

Well, I knew it wasn't gonna be a simple answer!:laughing:

Anyway, since it doesn't sound like a major problem, (or at least, not one that I have any controll over) it looks like I've offically run out of excuses as to why I can't try submitting anything "just yet"!

(I have already read, re-read, and printed out a copy of the Zoo Admin rules regarding download submissions so at least I shouldn't have anything rejected for "improper submission"!)

Once I get close to an "offical release" (got a few more beta tests to finish) I will make an "announcement" on the Current Prodjects thread.

Just wanted to say "Thankyou" to everyone here at Zoo Admin! The information/support here is terrific, and has made this whole designing thing alot less intimedating than it could be! This site is awesome! You guys are the best!

-ZW

[jbl]

It depends which APE animal ID you mean.

If you mean the 8-character code, the answer is no, because the chance of overwriting is very rare. I think the cases known so far are in 95% the fault of the author, who used someone else's creation.

If you mean an animal ID like the original ZT animals, the one you see in the UCA/AI-files as cNameID=abcd, then I'd say yes. I don't know if it's still around, but search for the (researchable) whooping crane, by Quivaz if I'm right, to see how it's used. It's not recommanded though to give this kind of ID's unless you're planning to actually do something with it (eg making researchable, which could cause conflicts)

[Zirconia Wolf]

jbl, you must be phsycic!

The next thing I was going to ask was about the possibilety of making User Made Animals researchable! (I have the Arctic House already and it works great!) One of my "pet projects" involves an animal which (while very real indeed) is not only extremely rare, but closely related to an Offical ZT Animal that is already a research-needed species. I will have to hunt down a copy of that Whooping Crane for futher study. If it's too much of a pain-in-the-rear, or causes ANY conflicts with ethier the Offical or User Made stuff I have installed (and I have quite a bit) I will not go through with it. If it works out okay in my game, though....

I'm thinking that my first "public" release will be a little less involved however!

Thanks again!

-ZW

[jbl]

problem is that (I'm not sure about researchable animals though, it's been a long while since I attempted to make something like that myself) it might conflict with *user made* downloads, I wouldn't worry about conflicts with original files, at least if you have the CC.

It would be the same as the working benches that were made a lot a while ago, but conflicted with eachother. I'm talking with some people though about re-introducing this, with a self-written software program that would make it possible to have nonconflicting items.

[Zirconia Wolf]

Well I would hate to overwrite or cause a conflict with someone elses files! (I remember the "user bench" problems too!) Wow! A program that could make those kinds of things more feasable would be awesome! Be sure to let us all know if you manage to pull it off!

I'm printing out the UCA file for the Researchable Whooping Crane as I type. I'm certainly no expert, but I've printed out sereval AI files for Offical ZT Animals already (part of my programing research) and am (in my own opinion) getting pretty darn good at de-coding these things... yet I can't help but notice that this UCA file seems a whole LOT longer than it really needs to be! 36 pages?!?!? Not even the DD/MM Animals take that many! Can't be sure (I'll have to look once it's done printing) but I think I'm seeing ALOT of redundant animation and behavior files.....seems like over kill, but like I said, I haven't got a chance to look at it real closely yet.

I'm also seeing a custum made Lang/dll file (which I have NO idea how to create) so I may have to hold of on the-project-in-question untill a later date.

(BTW, I am running on CC, if anyone cares...)

-ZW

[Yellowrose]

ZW when you have the animal working and need the dll done just PM the messeges needed for the dll to Texgnome and he can add them to a ZA combined dll file. Or you can speak to Jay. Jay also can make the dll file you will need for the animal. Hope this helps.

[jbl]

about the file being 36 pages:
that's why I tell everyone NOT to use the UCA-file generated by APE...

[Zirconia Wolf]

Actually, I currently have 3 A.P.E cloned "Beta Test" critters (chosen semi-at-random) that I am currently running some extensive (and sometimes inadvertantly funny) programing tests on, and none of their UCA files are that long! They are:

1- Beta BigHorn Sheep  (19 pages)
2- Beta Lowland Gorilla  (25 pages)
3- Beta Spinosaurus     (26* pages)

(I would like to have something cloned from MM too, but even using A.P.E 2.5 MM and Spins Enchancment only gets me something like 8 or 9 Aquatic animals to choose from, none of which are quite what I'm looking for in an Aqutic-Living Test Subject. I haven't quite "grasped" how people are importing these missing animals into A.P.E yet, but hopefully I will soon! I'm hoping that it has something to do with the Animal Hack Base files I just downloaded.....)

The "Offical" Bighorn AI file came in at 11 pages, which is an 8 page difference from my Beta Bighorn. I know the UCA files are (now) longer than the AI ones as A.P.E is accounting for all the various settings that DD/MM/CC added to the game, but I still think 36 pages is more than just an A.P.E "problem". Just my humble opinion. (The T-Rex AI file comes out to 24 pages, just 2 less than my A.P.E cloned dino.) Of coarse, it could have something to do with the fact that the Whooping Crane is coded to be a researchable user-made animal.......

All things considered, I  am (personally) finding the A.P.E UCA files to be easier to manually tweak (in Notepad) than the AI ones at times, since the UCA ones list things in alphabetical order. Now that I've got a good grasp on what-does-what, I find the alphabetical listing rather handy for customizing things! Again, that's just my crazy opinion!:loony:

As to the "dll file dilema" I'm having, it would really only be an issue with 1 of the animals that I have (currently) planned for creation/release, and would still hinge upon me finding a way to make the critter-in-question one that a player had to research to get, whithout over-writting anyone elses creation. (This would just seem alot more realistic to me, since it's an incredibely rare member of an all-ready-needs-to-be-researched Speices!) However, if I do manage to figure it out and/or the dll file is the real "key" to making something researchable, I will most asuredly be PMing Texgnome or Jay! (Thanks for the advice!)

-ZW

(* There are only 2 edited please watch your language this is a family friendly forum lines on page #26, so it's really more like 25.1 pages for my Beta Spino!)

[Jay]

Each time APE is used, it adds more and more garbage to the ".uca"/".ucs" files. Generally speaking, a ".uca" file should not be more than 1 page longer than the ".ai" file it is based on. I also prefer having characteristics listed alphabetically in the ".uca" file, but will still refer to the ".ai" file it is based on when changing the ".uca". In order to make ".uca" and ".ztd" files more efficient, you can use the Uca Editing Guide at ZKL:
http://www.lunamanar.com/zklounge/index.php?showtopic=116
Another useful utility is the animal configuration checker at ZKL:
http://www.lunamanar.com/zklounge/index.php?showtopic=1203
It will spot some (but not all) inefficiencies that APE does.

As for making researchable things, I recommend against it. All user created researched things have to override a ZT file, making them hacks. That means only 1 could be used at a time.

[Zirconia Wolf]

Hmm. So, in genaral, the less I open a project up with A.P.E, the better, right? I suppose there isn't an easy was to tweak the animation/sound files/order without opening up A.P.E though, is there? 90% of the "other stuff" I can easily set with Notepad, but animations/grapics/sounds I'm still learning about! (Not sure that I could "do it all" in one A.P.E session!) I agree that the AI files are a great help in "cracking the code" of critter behavior. My poor printer has been putting in overtime printing out various AI files, so I can study them against my Beta Test UCA ones. I'm afraid it might rebel soon!

Are you sure about the "research over ride"? I have both the user-made Arctic House and Deepsea Aquarium, and they both research just spiffy for me. All  the "regular" stuff is present and accounted for too. I have even managed to combine the Panda Care and Marine Recovery "unlocks" into my own personal Speedy Research Hack (inspired by Dj Pluffs and the ones I found here) that gives me everything in just under 20 days. (But it cost $100 a day, to help keep me semi-honest!) I have no problem with Hacks, as long as they're well coded!

I'll have to decide what to do about the-project-in-question, as I'm not sure it makes much sense to have instant access to such a rare animal, while still needing to research the "regular" version....although I suppose a viable alternative would be to make it require the company of the "regular" animal in order to keep it happy. Hmmmmm........

I will have to check out the "Configuration Utility" link you provided. (I've already printed out the ZKL guide to editing the UCA/UCS files. Very handy indeed!)

-ZW

[Jay]

It is not so much "using APE less". APE needs to be used as many times as it takes until all of the graphics are correct: male/female/young animations, male/female icons, and plaque. But that is all I would use APE for. After the graphics are correct, then any sounds can be  added manually and the ".uca" can be edited manually, including getting rid of the inefficiencies created by APE.

Yes, I am sure that adding new researched things involves overriding ZT files. Those that have created such things will start with the ZT files. So the ZT things will usually be present as well, although sometimes that is not the case because sometimes they started with ZT files before CC was released and did not take into account CC researched things such as the nocturnal house. In some cases, more than one user created researched thing were put into the same file. That is why some things will work together. Also, there are actually different research categories. Sometimes the overriding was at a higher level and sometimes the overriding was at the research category level, which would allow multiple research hacks as long as they were not in the same category.

Different people will have their own feelings concerning when things should be available in a zoo. There are other alternatives besides research. Things can be unlocked after a certain amount of game time. Also, rarer things could have a high purchase price. In my opinion, ZT's research is not realistic. It makes sense for things like training. But it does not make sense for animals and other things. Those things are either available or not. They might take time to get or to build, but it does not make sense to have to wait for research to be done on unrelated things just to get to the one you want. That is not how it works in the real world. Also, people get different enjoyment in ZT playing. I am one that does not play the scenarios and wants everything unlocked at the beginning of the game. I use the freeform unlock to get all ZT things available at the start of a zoo.

[Zirconia Wolf]

I guess when you said "Over Write" I thought you meant that any user made thing that required research would somehow always take something else out of the game, and since I have those 2 "researchable" houses with no missing items I was confused.

Sorry!:blushing:

While I have to agree with you on the strange way that ZT handles the whole Research/Conservation thing (how exactly does one research a tree anyway??) I am just trying to find a way to put my own mind (what there is of it) at ease with the idea that user made things are "instantly" available but ZT makes you "wait it out" for more common stuff. (That's the primary reason I created my cross-bred "Research Hack" in the 1st place! I use the Freeform unlock (and Pixigger's copy/paste permanent unlock) too, but if you don't get your silly research done before you save, the darn stuff isn't available when you re-load the saved game. So now I just wait my 19/20  game days and POOF, instant "SandBox" map! Plus, I get restless waiting during some senorios......)

I suppose I'll just have to grin and bear it.:wink:

On a non "research" Lang/Dll note, would it still be possible (okay) to at least have a pop-up message/money award coded for when a rare user-made critter gives birth the 1st time, like the other "rare" animals in the game? Or is this another "better not try it" thing?

-ZW

[Jay]

I have not attempted to create awards myself. Looking at ZT files, it looks like it should be able to be done without overriding ZT files. But, not having attempted them myself, I don't know if there is something unanticipated that can occur. I would be careful about following what other users have done, however. Some, if not all, were not done the Blue Fang way. There have been more technical support questions concerning various user awards than there have been questions concerning the typical user building. That would lead me to believe that there have been unanticipated things concerning them, possibly due to them not being done the Blue Fang way. Possibly useful comments are in scenario/example/example.scn inside scenario.ztd.