PETA

[Crookshankz227]

Have you noticed male lions kill cubs sired by other lions? Can we extrapolate from that to humans? I certainly hope not - which means that the earlier example doesn't work either. Predators have a role in ecosystems. Slaughterhouses do not. We're also causing massive damage to dolphin and crocodile populations because of over-fishing. People are horrified, but they won't stop eating fish.

About cosmetics, couldn't people go without eyeshadow? What's more important - eyeshadow or a dog's life?

When you're testing animals, you must keep them in humane conditions. Unfortunately, this is rarely, if ever, done.

Nobody  hates you for your opinions - you have every right to feel the way you do. =]

[dinofreak]

i hate this!i think if they are gonna test on animals test on mice.Also has anybody heard of Kunuk?Hes, a abanded polar bear."Animal Rights Actovistes(SP?)"say he should grow in the wild or kill him!why are they call Animal Rhights if they are suggesting we kill a cute orphan polar bear?

[sheltiefan]

5. Animals are usually only killed humanely if the meat is labeled Kosher. Otherwise, the animal can suffer. Chickens, for example are ran through scalding hot water while still alive and hanging from their legs to remove feathers. And conditions of living could be so much better - cramming a baby cow into a pen only as large as itself so that it cannot move, or lay down or ever see its mother so that we can have veal is not humane.

Yes unfortunately animals raised in factory farms are treated very poorly. They aren't considered as living, feeling creatures who can feel pain. Personally I don't eat meant from factory farms although I'm not vegetarian or vegan, I only eat meat if it's either labeled kosher or organic (they are pretty much the same and both require the animals are treated humanely).  

I'm also against animal testing, I can accept it if there are no other methods and the animal is given the best treatment it can to keep it comfortable (not to say I like the idea). However many, many tests are done that there are alternatives for or that aren't even necessary in the first place. And, for instance, animal testing for cosmetics, house cleaning products, and soap isn't required. You can find brands for all of these type of products that aren't tested on animals so it's obviously possible to avoid it.

But in regards to PETA, I do agree with a lot of what they say, perhaps not to the same extent on all points but to a degree. I do feel that they are extremists though, their methods are generally not respectable in my opinion which is why I would generally say I don't like the organization.

I'm not trying to argue here, just stating my opinions as we are all entitled to do.  

[Zoo Titan]

Well, forgive the errors in my post, I can't be sure about everything that I say.

About the slaughterhouse being unatural, of course it is but the only difference between and animal suffering because if is being clawed and bitten to death and what happenes at a slaughterhouse is that the slaughterhouse is more hygenic. When an animal dies in the wild due to a predetor, it will suffer before death come to it, how long varies, but it remains that it will suffer. It ain't a pleasent sensation to get a neckbite from a croc or to be slashed across the belly by a lion.

[Crookshankz227]

Have you noticed male lions kill cubs sired by other lions? Can we extrapolate from that to humans? I certainly hope not - which means that the earlier example doesn't work either.

I would like you to respond to this - you cannot justify human behaviour by looking at animal examples.

Predators have a role in ecosystems. Slaughterhouses do not. We're also causing massive damage to dolphin and crocodile populations because of over-fishing. People are horrified, but they won't stop eating fish.

They have a role in an ecosystem. The death may not be painless, but it's essential for life to go on (food chains, food webs and nutrient cycles). Slaughterhouses certainly do not play a role in any ecosystem, and are not necessary for the continuation of life. Have you understood what I'm trying to say?  

You also cannot justify blinding and perhaps killing a dog just so you can wear eyeshadow. Cosmetics testing is just wrong.

[mikaboshi]

Animals that die in the wild actually don't suffer that much, as predators often go straight for a spot that kills the animal instantly. A cheetah taking out the jugular of an impala is definitely more humane than many things that the slaughterhouse does.

[Giant_Anteater_1990]

I never Support Peta and I never will

[Zoo Titan]

The point is that at some point, meat is nessesary to the human body. We kill to eat, I have not once said that slaughterhouses are a good thing, the point is that you can't justify saying that humans killing and eating is a terrible thing while anything else killing to eat is "Nature's way."

[Snowstalker]

You need proof that we're omnivores? Look at your teeth. Those triangular ones are canines, which are for cutting meat. Factory farms aren't all that common. Most farms take very good care of their animals. Anyway, most are now shot. If done properly, the animal dies instantly. Compare to a Komodo dragon, who's victims often suffer for hours or even days.

[mikaboshi]

Animals on the farm are NEVER shot, just so you know. Bullets and shot can destroy parts of the meat and so would cost the farmer money. Yes we are technically omnivores because its easier to get certain amino acids that the human body needs from animal proteins, but its not impossible to get it from non animal sources.

[lilgamefreek]

Just takes a little bet more effort to get them, though human beings have come to the point where this effort is fairly minimal.

Though gotta admit, I think meat tastes pretty good.

As for PETA, I think their intentions are good, but I feel as if their is some corruption in their ranks. And manipulation of course, but every good orginization needs that.

[JohnZTMaster]

I hate PETA. I think they secretly just want to make mankind miserable, sure humans are stupid, but that doesn't mean we have to torture each other. It means we have to improve. I voted 'no'

Also, I'm not a vegetarian, because the animals used to make Hamburgers, hot dogs and etc. are bred to die, not just taken from the wild to die. But I don't eat a lot of meat really. Some people think I am a vergetarian.

[Alpha Dilophosaur]

[mikaboshi]

I think that PETA is way too radical to make a good difference in the world. They are domestic terrorists. I'm changing my major from Graphic Design to either Zoology and Wildlife Biology or Zoology and Conservation, and I have to go out of state because the great school in my state for that, University of Michigan, has been bombed, the animals released into the wild, and the staff and students harassed. Yeah, I'm afraid of PETA and afraid to go to school at U of M because of them.

But that doesn't mean that some of the stuff they are trying to fix in all the wrong ways are themselves wrong. Modern farms could worry less about output and worry more about the comfort of animals. Like I've said before, I will eat wild game because they didn't have a long suffering life and was taken just like it was supposed to be. I would not be a mostly vegetarian if the conditions were correct for the animals. The reason I am is because the less meat I eat, the less animals need to be put through that horrible life. Also all of the hormones that weren't tested on humans enough that are in our meat could later cause problems with my personal health. And to have all of those animals in such cramped conditions means that nature generally steps in and things that an illness needs to take place because of overpopulation (she's good at regulating like that) and many times the meat could be or is contaminated.

Of course these are just my opinions, and I know I have a lot of them, lol, but this is just something I'm passionate about. I can't bite into a chicken without thinking that the breast I'm eating is only so large because the chicken was filled with growth hormones and fattening foods, and that because of its unnatural breast size was unable to walk on its own two legs for the majority of its life because it couldn't support its own weight.

[Zoo Titan]

At many slaughterhouses actually the animals are shot, not in a place where it would damage the meat but so that it dies instantly and without pain, some not all, but in most, even if the animal is not shot, it dies quickly and painlessly.

Have you noticed male lions kill cubs sired by other lions? Can we extrapolate from that to humans? I certainly hope not - which means that the earlier example doesn't work either.

You want me to respond to that? You asked for it. They're animals!!! They were made that way to do that. Obviously we were not made to do that. However what we were made to do is to eat meat and plants, our teeth prove it, our digestive tract proves it, and I'm not going to stop eating meat because some stupid organization that kills to get what they want says to!! If we were made to kill human babies that weren't our own, then we would!! However we were not made to do that, so we don't! Lions were made to eat meat, so were we, we are different than animals. Case closed.

[mikaboshi]

Animals like pigs and chickens are hung from their legs and their throats are cut and are drained of blood, not shot. look it up I promise. Guns are not a part of the process.

[ShenTirag]

I eat meat, because it tastes delicious.  That doesn't mean I do not think about the condition of the animals.  I try my hardest to eat only free range meat and eggs, so the animal has at least had a decent quality of life.  (And living on a student budget I'm practically vegetarian anyway!)  I absolutely refuse to eat battery hen eggs and I wish to see the practice outlawed.  

Yes, we are animals, and we were designed to get our nutrients from a variety of natural sources, from meat, fish, vegetables etc.  However there does not have to be a conflict between eating meat and caring about our fellow animals.  There is a balance, you just have to be responsible and socially aware of the wider consequences that your purchasing decisions make.

I would like to point out that "animals do that!  we are not animals" or "animals do that! we are animals" arguments are superfluous, as I'd hope that most of you would know that all animals are differently suited to their environment and their available resources, and have differing social structures than our own.  

[Zoo Titan]

Animals like pigs and chickens are hung from their legs and their throats are cut and are drained of blood, not shot. look it up I promise. Guns are not a part of the process.

Very well I'll take your word for it, however you realize that cutting their throats is an instant death.

I would like to point out that "animals do that!  we are not animals" or "animals do that! we are animals" arguments are superfluous

How should I take that? If my argument means nothing then please explain why.

Yes, we are animals

Sorry but this is just too much, just because we can be classified with animals does not mean that we are, I can't prove it but I know that what I'm saying is the truth.

I do not mean any kind of disrespect, but when people tell me that what I say means nothing, than that's when I get upset.

[ShenTirag]

How should I take that? If my argument means nothing then please explain why.

I explained.  Pointing to other animals to find behaviour you personally disagree/agree with to justify your point does not take into account the wider circumstances of the wildly different environments that all animals including humans find themselves in, and also ignores the fact that all animals have different behaviours.

Sorry but this is just too much, just because we can be classified with animals does not mean that we are, I can't prove it but I know that what I'm saying is the truth.

Zoo Titan, I'm not going to turn this thread into an "are we animals?" thread because practically every single leading biological establishment in the world agrees that humans are the species homo sapiens, we are primates and we are animals.  If you want to argue with science, fine.

[Zoo Titan]

Excuse e'mua, for having an opinion. As I said before, I did not mean disrespect to anyone who thinks differently than I do, but my argument has a point no matter what. Your entitled to your own opinion but so am I, and I didn't step on your opinion by saying that it was a useless opinion, I'm sorry if I've offended you in anyway, to each his own.

[mikaboshi]

Everyone is allowed their opinion, no need for anyone to get upset. Just because someone quotes part of your opinion to use as a jumping platform to lead into part of their own opinion does not mean that they are attacking you or your beliefs; it means that there are aspects of thought that you differ on and then that person is explaining why. This can also be called a friendly debate. No one's opinion is useless and from what I see no one was claiming that. If you are going to share your opinion, please be prepared to listen to someone else's; we do not become open-minded to the world by being closed minded to what others have to say.

If we can't get along, this thread will have to be closed.

[Zoo Titan]

Fine, I just thought that he was saying my opinion was useless because the word superfluous in the dictionary means: unnessesary;useless.

About PETA: they say that zoos are "animal prisons" however look at Seaworld, it is a zoo, however they have donated over 8 million dollars to conservation of wildlife, nearly every cent that PETA gets is spent on advertising themselves. PETA is Nothing, and the world's animals would be better of without them!! If you wan't animal cruelty prevention, I say look to SPCA (Society for prevention of cruelty to animals) not PETA.

[Crookshankz227]

Are we discussing animal rights or PETA here? They aren't the same thing. I do not support PETA, but I feel sad when people dismiss animal rights as something only gun-toting whackos support.

[Zoo Titan]

:goodpost: I agree, PETA is not the only group that supports animal cruelty prevention, their are many other more sane groups out their that are more worth peoples time.

[mikaboshi]

Agreed full heartedly Crooky. I do not support PETA's ways as I have stated but that doesn't mean people should not care about animal rights just because of a radical group.